Roy Ngerng’s Speech at #ReturnOurCPF: I Believe In A New, United Singapore

Return Our CPF@I will continue to speak up on Singaporeans' CPFSingapore at a Crossroads Today

Singapore has come a long way in our country’s history. Today, we are at a crossroads. How can our country continue to grow while our people will be taken care of, protected and be free.

As citizens who care for our country, as Singaporeans who have a stake in our country, it is our birthright, and it is our responsibility to speak up, and voice out so that we can create solutions for our country and better not only our lives, but that of our fellowmen.

After nearly 50 years, Singapore might have a First World economy and we have First World costs. But do we have a First World government? Do we have First World lives? Today, many Singaporeans struggle with our lives, earning the lowest wages among the high-income countries even as Singapore has become the most expensive place to live in the world. Singaporeans struggle to make ends meet and fear that we do not have enough to use.

But this shouldn’t happen. This shouldn’t be where Singapore is today, not when Singapore is now one of the richest countries in the world, where our politicians are the highest paid in the world. This disparity shouldn’t happen where our politicians are able to enjoy their lives while the common Singaporean struggle everyday for our own lives.

“If Your Treat Us Well, We Will Treat You Even Better”

No, we are not envious. We do not want more because we are envious. Singaporeans are a cool-headed people. We are people who will stick together through thick and thin with you, if we know that we can trust you. A Singaporean told me, “For us Singaporeans, if you treat us well, we will treat you even better”. We have integrity. We believe in justice. We believe in fairness.

But when you betray our trust, we will not hold back and we will not take kindly to it.

A government should protect its citizens. A government should put its citizens first and create policies to take care of its people and make sure that we can feel safe in our own country. A government has a responsibility, to listen to its people, to be humble and to work with its people to execute our demands. This is what a government should be doing.

When Singaporeans talk about the CPF, when we raise our concerns, it is the responsibility of the government to listen. Why do Singaporeans have to sell our homes just because we do not have enough to retire on? Why do Singaporeans have to sell our homes because we do not have enough to pay for our hospital bills? Why do our elderly Singaporeans continue to have to work because our CPF is not good enough for us to retire on?

If the CPF is not good enough, then can we still trust the government to take care of our CPF?

Today, our grandmothers and grandfathers have to work as cleaners, odd-job labourers and cardboard collectors because they do not have enough to retire on. 20 years ago, they earned $800. Today, they still earn $800. If they cannot retire, is it because they did not work hard enough? Or were they not paid well enough?

Last week, a Singaporean told me, “The government makes me beg them to help me. But I also have my dignity. I also have my pride. If I keep begging and they still do not help me, why should I keep begging?”

Do our poor remain poor because they do not work hard enough? Is it right for our lower-income Singaporeans to believe that they should remain poor because they are not good enough? Or not smart enough? Or that they did not work hard enough? No, it is not right. Our poor and our elderly workers work the longest hours in Singapore. If that is not hardworking, then what is?

Singaporeans are a hardworking people. We will work hard if we know that for the sake of our country, our family and our children, we will have better lives. We will do it. But when we work so hard but we realise that our hard work is being taken for granted, then how can we still have faith that our government has our interests at heart and will protect us?

Today, many Singaporeans cannot retire. Today, Singaporeans work very hard but we cannot see our CPF grow. Today, we fear that we might never be able to feel safe in our own country.

Singaporeans Demand Transparency and Accountability On Our CPF

It is now a known fact that the government takes our CPF to invest in the GIC, the government’s investment firm. The government takes our CPF to earn 6.5% but only gives back to us a low 2.5% to 4% interest on our CPF. This is the lowest interest rates in the world. In the 1970s and 1980s, Singaporeans were earning a 6.5% interest on our CPF. Why did the government push it down to 2.5% in 1999?

Singaporeans cannot retire today because our CPF cannot grow. Our wages did not grow, so our CPF did not grow. But prices grew, housing prices grew and the CPF Minimum Sum grew. Why would the government increase the CPF Minimum Sum by more than 6%, knowing full well that our CPF will never be able to grow fast enough to meet the CPF Minimum Sum?

Then, what is the government trying to do with our CPF?

(1) Singaporeans Demand Transparency from the GIC

On the GIC’s website, they had previously said that, “GIC manages the Government’s reserves, but as to how the funds from CPF monies flow into reserves which could then be managed by either MAS, GIC or Temasek, this is not made explicit to us.”

They had also said that, “The Government, which is represented by the Ministry of Finance in its dealings with GIC, neither directs nor interferes in the company’s investment decisions. It holds the board accountable for the overall portfolio performance.”

So, the GIC claimed that they do not know how they use our CPF to invest and they claimed that the government does not interfere in the GIC.

But when you look at the GIC’s Board of Directors, their Chairman is the Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Their directors the two deputy prime ministers Tharman Shanmugaratnam and Teo Chee Hean, the Minister for Education Heng Swee Keat and the Minister for Trade & Industry Lim Hng Kiang. Their Senior Advisor is Lee Kuan Yew.

So, how can it be possible that the GIC does not know how they are using our CPF? How can it be possible that the government does not interfere in the GIC?

Then who is not telling Singaporeans the truth? Is the GIC not telling the truth? Or is the government not telling the truth?

After this fact has been exposed, the GIC changed what they write on their website. Now, it says, “GIC, along with MAS, manage the proceeds from the securities issued and guaranteed by the government (SSGS) which CPF board has invested in with the CPF monies. So while the CPF monies are not directly transferred to GIC for management, one of the sources of funds that goes into the Government’s assets managed by GIC is the proceeds from SSGS.”

What the GIC is saying is that our CPF is invested in government securities which goes into the Government’s assets managed by the GIC. In short, our CPF is managed by the GIC.

So, from not knowing how our CPF is being invested in the GIC, suddenly, the GIC and the government knows that how CPF is being invested in the GIC? Why did the GIC suddenly change what they say and suddenly admit that they know how they are using our CPF? Why did the GIC make this about turn? Why did the GIC change what they say after this information became public?

So, why did the GIC first tell us that they do not know how they our using our CPF, then suddenly tell us that they do?

All this while, the Singapore prime minister, the two deputy prime ministers and the ministers are on the board of directors on the GIC and are our government. Now, what game are they playing?

Not only that, the fund managers at the GIC are also “paid a fee” to manage the funds. How much is this “fee”? There is no transparency as to how much this is. Now, the ministers are currently paid millions from our taxpayers money. How much more are they paid as fund managers from our CPF monies?

Does it make sense that the ministers are paid millions when Singaporeans are unable to take our CPF out?

What we should ask is this – should the prime minister of Singapore be on the board of directors of the GIC? Should the deputy prime ministers and the ministers be on the board of directors on the GIC? Is there a conflict of interest?

Who will protect our CPF money if the government is also the GIC, which wants to make money out of CPF?

The GIC does not publish full reports on how they use our funds. Do we know what the prime minister, deputy prime minister and the ministers are using our funds for? Do we know how they are using it?

(2) Singaporeans Demand Transparency and Accountability from Temasek Holdings

A few days ago, Temasek Holdings wrote to The Straits Times to say that, “Temasek does not invest or manage the savings of CPF members”.

But in the book, Development States: Relevancy, Redundancy Or Reconfiguration, it was stated that “since the late 1970s, CPF’s reserves as part of public sector surplus have been co-mingled with other investments either domestically by Temasek Holding Ltd or abroad by the GIC”.

If so, does this mean that at one point in time, our CPF was invested in the Temasek Holdings? If so, when did the government stop investing our CPF in the Temasek Holdings? Last year? A few years ago? 10 years ago? Can the government be transparent with us?

Temasek Holdings earn a 16% interest. If our CPF was invested in the Temasek Holdings, then we should get our interest back.

(3) Singaporeans Demand Transparency and Accountability from the Government

Last year, I had also looked through several government websites and found specific evidence of how our CPF is invested in the GIC and the Temasek Holdings. From what I had gathered from several government websites, I was able to trace that our “CPF monies are invested in bonds” or “Special Singapore Government Securities”, which are then “invested in reserves”, and which are “managed by three agencies – the GIC, Temasek Holdings and the Monetary Authority of Singapore.”

However, last week, when I checked on these websites again, the government has removed or changed some of the information from their websites. Now, you can no longer tell that our CPF is being invested in the GIC and Temasek Holdings. The two specific evidence that have been changed are these. First, the government removed information that our CPF is invested “in reserves”. Next, the government removed information that shows directly that the reserves are managed by the GIC, Temasek Holdings and the Monetary Authority of Singapore.

Why did the government do this? Why does the government not want Singaporeans to know that our CPF is invested in the reserves? Why does the government not want Singaporeans to know that our CPF is being invested in the GIC and Temasek Holdings?

What is the government trying to hide?

(4) Singaporeans Demand Full Records from the GIC and Temasek Holdings

Finally, in 1993, President Ong Teng Cheong wanted to fulfill his responsibilities as our elected President to protect the reserves. He asked the government to let him know how much there are in the reserves. However, the government told him that it would take 56-man years to count and let him know.

But now, we know that the reserves are managed by the GIC, Temasek Holdings and the MAS. If so, the GIC, Temasek Holdings and the MAS would have kept full and proper records. This is what we expect of an efficient and upright government. So, how can it be possible that it would take 56-man years for them to count how much there are in the reserves?

Now, if the GIC, Temasek Holdings and the MAS are not keeping proper records, then we have to question if they are handling our public funds properly. Can we trust them with our public funds if they do not keep proper records of our money?

But if they do keep proper records, then why did the government tell President Ong Teng Cheong that it would take 56-man years to let him know how much there are in the reserves? President Ong Teng Cheong had wanted to protect our money, the money of Singaporeans. And if President Ong Teng Cheong is not even allowed to know how our money is being used, then who else is?

Then, who will be able to protect our money?

Now, there is no transparency.

When there is no transparency, will there be honesty?

When there is no transparency, will there be justice?

When there is no transparency, will there be accountability?

When there is no accountability, who knows what is happening to our CPF?

When Singaporeans cannot retire, why? Why Singaporeans cannot take out our CPF, why? Why our CPF is trapped inside, why?

When there is no transparency, will there be honesty?

So I ask again, did the GIC and Temasek Holdings use our CPF money? How long have they been using our money to earn for themselves? How much money have they earned with our CPF?

We want full reports. Not just from today. But for all the years since 1974, when Temasek Holdings was first started. What have they done with our money? Why are Singaporeans so poor today? Why can’t we take our CPF out today? Show us the money! Show us all the records. It is time the government stop hiding. It is time the government stops pretending.

The only way we will ever know is for the government to show us all the records. The only way we will ever know is for the government to be transparent and accountable!

Where is our money? What is the government doing with our CPF money? Show us the records! Tell us the truth. Be honest to Singaporeans.

A New Beginning Today

I have spoken up because I believe that as a government, there is a responsibility and duty to the people. A government has to be honest and accountable to the people. A government has to be truthful to the people. Singaporeans have a right to know how our money is being used and where it is going. If we cannot retire, we have a right to know why.

To grow our CPF, the government has to increase our wages. To grow our CPF, the government has to increase the CPF interest rates.

When our wages grow, when the CPF interest rates grow, our CPF will grow and Singaporeans will be able to retire, with dignity and with respect.

What we want is not the CPF Minimum Sum. What we want is minimum wage.

What we want is not for the government to take our CPF to earn high interests at the GIC and Temasek Holdings. What we want is for the interest our CPF earn to be returned back to us.

What we want is not for the government to take our CPF to use without telling us. What we want is for us, Singaporeans, to be consulted before the government takes our money to use.

What we want is not for the government to tell us that it is not in our interest to know what they are doing with our CPF money. What we want is transparency and accountability.

The CPF is our money. We, the citizens of Singapore, are the owners of our money and our country. It is our right to decide what we want to do with our CPF money.

It is not the prerogative of the government to decide what they want to do with our CPF money and to tell us to take it or leave it. No, it is not. It is the responsibility of the government to listen to what we, the citizens of Singapore want, and to do what we want them to do. This is what a government should do.

It is the responsibility of the government to act in accordance to the people’s wants and not make Singaporeans act in accordance to what they want.

We, the citizens of Singapore, decide who gets voted into government. It is the government that has to listen to Singaporeans, and not the other way round.

  1. Instead of 2.5%, Singaporeans should be earning a much higher interest rate on our CPF!
  2. Instead of receiving only a few hundred dollars from our CPF payout, Singaporeans should be receiving a much higher payout!
  3. Instead of having our retirement funds trapped inside the CPF, Singaporeans should be able to withdraw it and invest for higher returns!
  4. If the GIC and Temasek Holdings take our CPF monies to invest, then we demand full transparency, accountability and full reports on how our CPF monies are being used!

It is the duty of a government to listen, to answer and to respond. It is not right if a government chooses to stop us from asking these questions. We have a right. Singaporeans have a right.

When we see our elders working as cleaners, odd-job labourers and cardboard collectors, is it right that after giving their lives to build Singapore to what it is today, that we continue to make them toil and work?

As Singaporeans, as a society, we have a responsibility to our elders. If they want to work, we have to respect that. But if they want to rest and finally spend some time for themselves, we have a responsibility as a people to ensure that they are able to do so.

When we see Singaporeans who have to earn low wages, is it right that we judge them and think that they are earning low wages because they are not hardworking enough? As a people, we have to value one another and all Singaporeans equally. No matter whether you are a CEO, a cleaner, a teacher or a nurse, each and every life is valuable, should be respected and should be honoured. We have to treat our people with dignity, with pride and with kindness, and pay them right.

When we see our families with children, is it right to leave them to fend for themselves, to pay for expensive healthcare and education? As a society, we have a responsibility to our community and our families, to take care of them, and of one another. We have a duty to protect the members of our community and our larger family. If all Singaporeans can rise together, our country will grow.

Today, Singapore is at a crossroads. Where do we go from here?

Singapore is our country. Singapore is our home. Today, I have spoken up. And so have many others. Many others who have spoken to me, sent messages to me and supported me in this journey. I thank you and I am grateful. I am only an ordinary Singaporean. I want to speak up because I care for our country. And so do many of you here and us Singaporeans. Today, we have spoken up and we have made ourselves heard. Today is a new beginning where we, Singaporeans, come together, to chart a new direction for our country and our future. No more shall we keep quiet. No more shall we be shy.

Today, we will be brave. We will stand tall. We will question and we will demand for answers. For today, we have found a new courage, a new hope and a new inspiration. Today, we will be united and we will, as Singaporeans and every person in our country who care for our country, we will join hands and we will create a new destiny!

I believe that one day, our people will be free, respected and equal, as we once were, where we will live our lives happy, together and hopeful.

I believe in a society where our old are able to live in dignity, where our poor are not poor but rich, where our families are strong, and where Singaporeans are proud and confident of who we are.

I believe that one day, all of us will speak up from our hearts, to care for one another and take care of the person next to us.

I believe that we can see a more equal, a happier, a just and dignified Singapore and Singaporeans today, in our lifetime.

This is what I believe.

We can make this happen if we believe deep within our hearts, find the strength from deep within and believe in ourselves. We can see the future that we have always wished for grow in front of our very eyes if we find the courage within us, hold on to it, and let it grow.

Many of us have dreams and hopes for a beautiful future, and a new Singapore.

Now, just believe, stay true and stay united. It is time. If we believe, let’s make it happen now. If we believe, we will make it happen.

It is time, my friends. The time for change is now. Take heart, take pride, stay strong and let’s make it happen. Majulah Singapura!

My friends, it’s time to awaken. It’s time to rise. It’s time to take control. And take back our lives, our money, our pride and our dignity. The time for change is now. The time for change is today in our hands. Take it. Use it. Be the change you wish to see. And let’s work together to create the Singapore we have always wanted. And what we will be proud of. A Singapore which is equal, just, honest and fair. A transparent and accountable Singapore where all Singaporeans and people of our land will be protected and cared for. This is the Singapore that we are proud of, and the Singapore that it’s time to fight with our lives for. It is time, my friends. Speak up, believe and make our dreams come true.

Thank you.


      • fwah

        The only example of good content I see is that high-resolution picture of the sunflower field at the end of this post. Very inspiring, and yet so irrelevant.

    • Ej

      Sadly it seems like the majority of Singaporeans, those who have more than enough minimum sum is simply not interested.

    • Exodus115

      You know who Roy reminds me off? The same man who pulled his nation out of the great depression, led his people to greater times, and brought their spirits up with his charisma and powerful speeches and rallies. A great man in the 1930s, who was an animal loving vegetarian. He later appeared on Life magazine for his feats as a great leader. I believe all of you know who I am referring to, the one and only Adolf Hitler, Der Fuhrer of Nazi Germany. Also, I believe Stalin did something similar, he led the Russians against their government, and thus, communism was born. Yea Roy, good luck in court with your fellow league of felons.

  1. Marco


    For this message to reach more Singaporean, you need to translate in the other main stream languages. Thank you this article.

  2. The Passing of Tyrants

    ‘The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed,
    the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress:
    the hate of men will pass and dictators die
    and the power they took from the people, will return to the people
    and so long as men die liberty will never perish…’
    – Charlie Chaplin, The Great Dictator

    It won’t be long now before LKY will have to answer the call of nature.
    Well done Roy!

  3. tokcok who dont know

    wow so impressive. .from health care worker to financial expert and now talk like a politician..clap clap clap.. perhaps your next move : propose to remove section 377A of penal code lah.. or perhaps set up a party with Vincent. ..

      • tokcok who dont know

        ace..I appreciate u didnt use insults even though we have different opinions. I must thank u for that and I respect people like u. thanks!

  4. cool

    Actually, there is no such thing as you want growth still able to have your cake and eat it. I would rather we do not grow anymore. Relax and take your time. Regression is fine with me too with slow down in pace of life and everything else.

  5. Aiyoh

    What a load of BULLSHIT !
    20 years ago your grandparents earned $800 as cleaners ???
    Wow, if I knew I would have worked as a cleaner. I was only paid about $450 as a Tax Officer 20 years ago.

    Roy is an ignorant LIAR and DECEIVER. Do not believe everything he says.

    • johnson

      Roy is right. Aiyoh, which country were u in, earning only $450? I remember a technician at that time can earn $1200 to $1500. Production operator can earn $1000. Cleaner can also earn as much as $1000. Can’t blame Aiyoh, because he lives in the era of depressed wages.

    • webex

      @AIYOH. 20 years ago means 1994. $450 as a Tax Officer? You must be insane or a moron. Salaries in 1994 was much higher than what you are saying. Do not try to douse the passion of Roy. Show me some intelligence in what you are writing or shut up..

    • spartans

      If u earned $450 as tax officer a month during 20yrs ago ,than u should join me to become a taxi driver ,my salary better than u S$1,200.I think u will be a better liar

    • milrovert

      $450 a month as a tax officer? Were you working that a part-time? Cos a entry level clerk with N level could easily earn around $800 in 1994. I know cos i was recruiting them for my company.

  6. ordinary?

    I have seen so often here saying “I am just an ordinary Singaporean”. What do you mean by ordinary? An ordinary Singapore don’t spend so much time blogging and stubbornly fighting for the so called sake of “every Singaporean”. Then an extraordinary Singaporean will be someone who spends the time trying to take extra course to upgrade oneself or extra job to earn extra.

    • tokcok who dont know

      when one has no substance, he can only tell people he is just one of us in order to gain support… and to get the attention he so craves for.

      • Ace

        And why do you guys say that you are neutrals.
        Neutrals do not post such one sided comment.

      • uncle tan

        Cos we can think and decide for ourselves who is telling the truth. Somehow I find it a little hard to believe a person who claims to be an ordinary singaporean and has only a four digit figure life savings but went on a multi-city escapade in europe. As far as I know, ordinary singaporeans travel around asia.

      • Laurence

        Being neutral means calling it as one sees it. Whether it is criticizing Roy or PAP or any people involved in the political scene.

        Lastly unlike what a lot of people assume, just because Roy speaks against PAP does not automatically means he is in the right all the time hence the criticism regarding his actions.

      • Ace

        @Uncle Tan and @Laurence
        You mean you cannot even find one thing good about all the articles written by Roy?
        Are you also unhappy that government and PAP MPs are now also asking for review of CPF?
        As neutrals, you cannot have a wholesale dislike or hatred of a person and treat him like the enemy.
        If you do that, then, you cannot claim to be neutrals, simple enough?

      • uncle tan

        Do share with me one good thing in all of Roy article. I keep seeing the same suggestions about tying CPF interest rate to Temasek earnings (which is impossible if you ask any self-respecting financial expert), Singapore government trying to do something sinister with our CPF money (Why dun he report to the police then?) or how the government is spending not enough on healthcare etc ( by the way, amount allocated to healthcare is NOT the only way to compare, any self-respecting healthcare professional should know that other outcomes such as infant mortality rate should be used for comparison)

        Yes. He did raise awareness about the CPF but ask yourself honestly, could this be done with less legal action and insinuation? Look at how Professor Walter Woon Cheong Ming managed to pass a bill through the NMP scheme and not through catchy slogans printed on tshirts or chanted out at HLP

      • Ace

        @Uncle Tan
        There are few thing that Roy brought up which are good.
        1. Interest rate on CPF are too low compared to inflation.
        2. Why should our CPF go to SGS & SGSS which then go to our SWF? If go directly to SWF, we would have more transparency and better returns.
        3. Why does CPF rules keep changing? Are the changes better for Singaporeans or worse for Singaporeans.
        4. Is Singapore still an uneducated society like in the 1960s & 70s?
        5. Are the reason given to make those changes reasonable or are these fallacies?

        History shows that nobody in power would give up power unless they have to and it is achieve through different ways and means. Your example is one way but Roy is neither a Parliamentarian or even a NMP. He is applying to be a NMP, so are you going to be his sponsor? I guess not and I do not think he will be one because the hornet’s nest may not only be stirred but destroyed if he is in Parliament.

        In a mature society, we must respect differences in opinion. It should not be right versus wrong but just different.
        Many still stick to the old thinking of it’s either black or white but there are many shades of grey in between. This is constructive. Character assassination on the other hand is destructive. How you want to go forward is up to you. All of us have only one life to make a difference.

        It’s a great weekend. Enjoy!

      • uncle tan

        I will admit that number 1 and 3 are decent points (but does he have to resort to sensationalism to get these points across?). I would not comment on number 2 and 3 as I do not have sufficient knowledge to answer that. But I do not get point number 4, Singapore is definitely more educated compared to the society back in 1970s and 1960s. And lastly, I think it would be a stretch to say that changes were made due to fallacies. Take for example, the raising of the minimum sum is to accommodate the increased life expectancy but the degree to which it is raised is questionable.

        I was just giving an example about how people could make a difference without resorting to baseless insinuations or numerous rallies at HLP (with questionable results). I am sure there are countless unknown non-elected individuals in Singapore who have made a difference and yet did not receive a lawsuit. And lets be honest here, if Roy Ngerng does gets into Parliament as an NMP, he won’t be able to destroy the supposed hornet’s nest. Because that would mean that the Worker Party are slacking off in Parliament. There is a reason why they are not able to and that is because the government is not that evil as Roy has been making them out to be. They are bad but not that bad as they do have their own good points. Note the recent drought and yet we do not need to resort to water rationing. Is it not a good sign of foresight?
        And yes, I would not be his sponsor because I do not agree with his sensationalism methods.

        I truly agree with your statement about a mature society and after all, politics is a messy business with no one truly wrong or correct. But then what about Roy Ngerng? He does not seem to agree with this view. Go read the comments on his previous posts and you will find that many people questioned his analysis and data but he either brushed them off as PAP IB or ignored them. And why did he made the baseless insinuation that our PM is siphoning away our money?

        Yeah enjoy your weekend too!

      • Ace

        @uncle tan
        Good. You said WP is not that bad and have their own good points. So, can you name three for the record.
        With regards to Roy, you can disagree with his points and he can ignore your comment like even PM with his whole support of staff will not answer everyone on his facebook but simply remove those post. Which is worse? Would you like your comment to be ignored or removed. Better still blocked from this blog.

      • another average singaporean

        Look up their facebook page. They have kindly listed their achievements there.

        I think both are equally bad? And why is he emulating the PAP in ignoring opposing viewpoints then? If he claims to be everything the PAP is not and the people’s champion, should he not debate with people who do not agree with him rather than brushing them off or ignoring them?

        And I have yet to hear your viewpoint on why did Roy Ngerng decide to make the baseless insinuation that our PM is siphoning away our money?

      • uncle tan

        @Ace I see someone has answered your question on my behalf.

        And yes, it is nice that Roy Ngerng has not blocked me but I would prefer he answer people who have issues with the validity of his facts.

      • Ace

        @another average singaporean
        @uncle tan
        Self praise is not counted. So uncle tan, in your opinion, what is WP good points?
        Roy has not answered anyone in this blog for a long time regardless whether it is positive or negative comment so I don’t see it as a problem. It becomes a problem if you block, delete or censor some of the comments. This is quite common in many of our politician’s facebook page.

        With regards to the insinuations, he already admitted his mistake and APOLOGISE.
        Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Did you apologise? Were you forgiven?
        Poor thing if your parents did not forgive you when you make a mistake even after you apologise. Did they cane you as well?
        Psychologically, we are condition to behave how we were treated. Pity all you guys carrying the heavy burden of unforgiveness.

        “If you’re not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
        ―Malcolm X

  7. selfish

    For those who has no children or will never have, it would be of no interest of the country future survival. It would instead be logical for own reason to hope for the country reserve to be distributed and use the money for own enjoyment.

      • Ace

        You guys have been calling for people to leave the country.
        In that case might as well use up the reserve first, then leave the country.
        Good solution, no?

    • webex

      @ selfish. What is your point here? Is it because Roy has declared his sexuality that you are hinting of “no children”?

      Rubbish talk by you. It is about CPF and the debate is about what is happening to the management of the enormous funds in CPF.

  8. Ding hua

    I like the sunflower picture. In China, our elderly are fully taken care by the goverment. They dont pay a cent to take public transport. I always wonder why the Singapore government cannot afford despite havng a higher per capital income. Looks like my choice to eventually migrate to Canada is right. My parents will be well taken care there.

    • Yang

      “Kindness in words creates Confidence. Kindness in thinking creates Profoundness. Kindness in giving creates Love.” (the wisdom of Lao Tzu)

    • Fei Chang Ting Hua

      Hi Ding Hua, fellow Chinese citizen here, I will be immigrating to the dream land which is Norway. 🙂

      • bu ting hua de roy

        Hail comrade, I also agree that we should be going Norway. Based on Mr CPF expert, Norway is a wonderful place to migrate to

      • Observer Tan

        There you go. Confessions of 2 chinese “instant” citizens. Singapore is just a stepping stone. Thank you for confessing what we knew long ago.

  9. Ding hua

    Singapore most likely will not last another 50 years. Looking at how different hostile groups have been trying to outdo each other online. As a spectator, I find it rather amusing. No one is really interested in listening. I will keep the pink ic as a souvenir when the dust settle and the nation lay to waste. Overall I find people here too disunited. Back in China, we people really act as one nation. Nobody, not even US dare bully us. Singaporeans should really learn from China and stop fighting amongst its own.

    • tokcok who dont know

      yes people said singapore can’t make it when we first had independence. but we survived well. and we will survive another 50 years easily. although now sjngaporeans have differing, opposite political views, when we come to a crisis I am sure we willl rally together. unlike china who has been fighting amongst within itself and bullying other smaller countries.

      • Ding hua

        Hi tokcok, you should come to China. We people are much united that you think. There is only one race, one people. Singapore is like 散沙..

    • stt

      Isnt China fighting among themself too. Even worse loss of lives. Tianamen. Now latest the terrorists problem and fighting against corruption. History has proven again and again.. the reason for downfall of many dynasty due to selfish Chinese. It is still is today and now we see them here too. This will never go away not in this lifetime and future.

      • tokcok who dont know

        yes chinese soldiers turn their guns at chinese unarmed ordinary folks. dinghua called that as chinese being united people..hahaha. or maybe he got brainwashed by the commies govt. and oh..there is the Cultural Revolution too. China united ? really?

    • webex

      Yeah Ding hua, I know China well…has worked there, lived there and even learned my Putonghua. I am Huaren and has 5,000 years of links back to China.

      Do not try to even talk up the greatness of China here. Go back to Beijing and live with the smog, the corruption, the oppression of your government, drink the polluted water, take the fake medicine and many more evils of China. It is not the country it once was and China is the country that is going downhill quite fast.

      Singapore will survive. Whether the PAP survives is for history to decide. But there are many capable people in Spore with the determination to see this country through to the future.

      How much have you travelled and seen the world? Looks like you are just a sore loser in life.

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  11. Chua

    Much better article. The episode prompted a clarification on MOF website on GIC. Looks like the real returns is only 4 percent. The nominal return of 6% is in USD and USD has depreciated greatly vs SGD in recent decades. And though we are not sure who bought the CPF bonds, the longer term(20-30 years) bonds return is only 3%. In short, if this is indeed market rate for AAA long term bonds, then we have not been short changed for CPF. If Temasek or GIC bought some of these bonds to invest then they would have earn extra percentage from these. Ploughing back 50% still leaves some unanswered sums and the amount spend on fund management has not been clarified. Also do our office bearers earn more on top of their minister pay from being on directors of GIC? If so and especially if the SSGS is undervalued vs market and bought by TH and GIC for investment capital then there is some issues. Hoping for answers before jumping to any conclusion. Keep digging. 🙂

    • duh

      As you know, no matter how right GIC facts are presented, those who didnt believe in the first place will never and ever believe. Their opinion will never change. They just want to see more money. Even after some was done, they would say not enough. if it was me, i wont even bother these people.

    • Observer Tan

      Yes, this is the track Roy should be taking and going in big. Are our Ministers paid again as Directors of GIC? It is after all, looking like public funds. Do our ministers really take a 1/3 sacrifice in salary or is it “made up” by such directorships? They cant really claim to be honest politicians when they choose to reveal what they want revealed while keeping their GIC Director fees under wraps. So many unanswered questions.

      What is more interesting is HOW many properties did each Minister own before and after leaving office. Did they have INSIDE information on how the increased population affected property price and did they help themselves given such inside information? Isnt this labelled Insider Trading, which is criminal? This, I believe is what many Singaporeans want to know. What do you think?

      • choofrfreoer

        As I have said many times over and over again, please.

        Many people think that the ministers take advantage of their positions to obtain favourable information and high pay. They assume that if these people weren’t minsters, they would be earning less in other jobs. But this is a disingenuous suggestion.

        Can I point out to you that these minsters are the cream of the crop of top overseas universities? They are stupid, because they chose to enter politics, leading to a loss of their private lives. If they chose to enter the private sector, they would be earning way more as CEOs of top overseas companies. Not less. Many people view the ministers’ salaries as an absolute amount in the millions. But this is a paltry sum as compared to people of similar abilities in the private sector.

      • Ace

        If based on education alone, CSM would be earning more than anyone else in Parliament but he is only getting MP allowance of $15K. In addition, no possible directorship in the GLCs. So who makes the bigger sacrifice?

      • uncle tan

        I beg to differ. He may be highly educated but he is definitely not the most highly educated individual in the Parliament. Have you even googled any of our minister’s background?

      • Ace

        @uncle tan
        That’s why we cannot just based on education alone and hence Minister’s salary should be performance based rather than how it is structured currently. Based on performance, how many MPs have not spoke in Parliament since 2011 and why should they be even paid their allowance?

    • Ace

      This is exactly the reason that people are calling for transparency.
      Base on current situation, we find an issue, they give us piece meal information to firefight it. So the information is actually available but not open to public. With transparency, they cannot do that. It is like stripping bare and every detail can be observed and analyze and when questions are ask, there is no way to weasel out of it.

      AGC found so many issues in the various Ministries including at the PMO. People make mistake (not necessary on purpose) and there are oversights. The key is to find the problem early enough so that it does not blow out. So transparency will be the key to making sure everything is carefully looked at not just by the AGC but by other citizen experts to protect the interest of Singapore and Singaporeans.

  12. Pingback: Singapore: “Return Our CPF” protest, Hong Lim Park, Saturday 7 June 2014 | weehingthong
  13. bloodytruth

    this roy group make lot mistakes but so do pap
    they claimed to correct pap.. but they are incorrect in approaches & ways of doing things
    & same goes to pap… thats why so many conflicts & problems with this 2 parties of supporters

    • another average singaporean

      Yeah but if I have to choose between these two groups, I know who I will choose in a heartbeat. Definitely not someone who decides to engage in sensationalism blogging, declare half-truths to be the truth and nothing but the truth or claims to have a small income and yet able to go on a Europe escapade.

      • Another really average Singaporean

        Oh yeah, like you i’m going to keep on voting for leaders who imprison citizens without trial, and who pay themselves multimillion dollar salaries while telling us to work harder for lower wages.

      • another average singaporean

        Oh yeah, you have changed my mind. I am so going to vote for an individual who decides to engage in unfounded insinuation and expects us to pay on his behalf by confusing others about the purpose of his court case. Woohoo. Life is getting better knowing that there is only Roy Ngerng or PAP. No worker party or SPP.

    • Ace

      You said PAP makes mistakes. Since you are so truthful, why don’t you list 3 of their biggest mistakes since GE 2011 here.
      We salute you!

      • bloodytruth

        why dont u tell me which party dont made mistakes?
        like u’re trying to said pap dont make any mistake… maybe that your biggest mistake

  14. Concerned Singaporean

    Roy, its heart warming to know that you are concerned about the poor in SG and want to fight for their rights. You may have valid arguments regarding how the CPF system can be improved, such as allowing withdrawal in tiers after a certain age, and I am sure all this can be further debated. However, please consider the below with regards to your call for more transparency about GIC / Temasek / MAS investments as well as the Singapore Reserve.

    I am not a firm supporter of all government policies, in particular their immigration policies due to the FTA signed with a particular south asia nation allowing massive influx of such ‘Talents’ into the managerial and executive ranks in Singapore. However, I would like to highlight the risk of greater transparency in terms of the SG reserve.

    In all your arguments, the focus have always been on interest rates. Little was mentioned about the FX rate, which happens to be the main defense Singapore use against global inflation (imported inflation). This is important however, in understanding the wealth of the average Singaporean in a global context.

    If you are familiar with the Asian Financial Crisis, you would have realized that the fall of countries such as Thailand, Indonesia, etc…is largely due to the Quantum fund getting wind of the national reserves of these countries, and by simply building a bigger bank (from PE funds), they were able to game the system and become richer at the expense of the citizens of these nations. (Why else the THB, Rupiah, KRW etc… are so weak now?). Having said that, given all the QE rolled out across Japan and US, it is not a good time now for the world to know our reserve figure. While we do not know for certain the size of our reserve…GIC and Temasek claims a total combined AUM above $100 billion etc…All it takes for a smart cookie to become an instant billionaire if he / she knows the reserve figure is to gather the various pension funds, PE funds, and billionaires of the world to build a larger bank and short the SGD….and tadah…another newly minted billionaire. Trust me, with all the trillion in USD floating around in liquidity now, it will not be that difficult to game Singapore and given the size of Singapore asset base, he may even become the next richest guy on earth,

    Henceforth, here comes my explanation on why someone earning S$800 in 1980 is different from someone earning S$800 now. If you looked at the SGD when SG declared independence from M’sia, the exchange rate is 1:1. Now it is 2.5:1. Simply put, even though he is still earning S$800, his S$800 is worth S$2k now in terms of his purchasing power in Malaysia. Now, if the newly minted billionaire in the above scenario succeed in shorting the SGD, and the SGD falls to 0.5 : 1, $800 will be worth only $400 in terms of purchasing power in Malaysia. How many ordinary citizens are now able to travel to Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, etc..vs the previous generation? That is where we Singaporeans are truly wealthy, not in a domestic context, but in a regional / global context. It is true that not all Singaporeans have a comfortable life in a local context, but should that poor Singaporean decide to migrate to Indonesia or Thailand or Taiwan or even Malaysia, he will be amongst the wealthier class.

    So for the sake of all of us, please stop trying to dig the reserve figure. It is kept a secret for a reason. Go read the history of the Asian financial crisis and learn a little more about how the Global FX system work if you don’t believe me. GIC / Temasek probably kept their investments secret so that smart cookies can’t work back work to try and guess the reserve figure. If I can do that should, I am sure anyone else out there can too.

    I know this is a little long, but please focus your fight on how to improve the CPF system rather than try to dig a number. However, should you really succeed in digging out the reserve number. Please let me know. I will be the first to short the SGD, and probably consider retirement somewhere else in the world.

    Good luck!

    • another average singaporean

      Sad to say, Roy Ngerng will simply ignore your post and continue advocating full disclosure of the GIC/Temasek funds. Rather ironic how he always accuses his opponents of ignoring his comments when he does exactly the same.
      And if Roy Ngerng had done his homework, he would have discovered this fact about the Asian Financial Crisis. After all, even a financial novice like me is aware of such stuff, I don’t see why any financial expert should be ignorant of this fact.

    • webex

      I disagree with what you wrote.

      The world’s financial market is much bigger than all countries. Money sloshes around the world and seeks to take advantage of weakness.

      A country’s reserves is no big secrets. There is enough disclosed even for China. No need to be 100% accurate, even 90% accurate is enough. Just read the papers.

      You sounded like you know how the game is played, how the Asian financial storm started etc. Spore survived then not because it hid its reserves data, Spore survived because it did not have the debts that other countries did. And Mahathir did the right thing…block Soros from making a filthy fortune out of other countries’ sorrows.

      The world is much more complex than your simple analysis. And stick to the topic…More Transparency is being asked of CPF management.

      • choofrfreoer

        Our reserves will never be made public, for one very good reason: Public means the entire world can see where Singapore’s economic vulnerabilities lie. We don’t want Forex traders to play with Singapore’s exchange rate, especially as Singapore’s open economy is very susceptible to hot cash inflows

      • Ace

        When you have little reserves, the reason you cited for not making public our reserves may be valid.
        Singapore has one of the strongest reserves and actually it is to our advantage to flaunt it. If you are the Forex dealer, would you choose the country with the strongest reserve to attack or one with a weak reserve?

        This is pure fallacy.

      • Ted

        U believe the Americans so much? Their record of human trafficking is extremely bad… So, what’s their ranking in their stupid CIA records?

      • Concerned Singaporean

        @ webex

        1. Would you share with me the reserve of abu dhabi and norway? They run 2 of the biggest swf in the world.

        2. What is the national reserve of China? Bear in mind US treasury is not the full reserve. Also RMB is a restricted currency and I doubt most funds in the world will have the financial muscle to take on china.

        3. Singapore survived cause of many reasons, and you are right that high debts of the other nation was a critical reason – it merely sealed their fate as they cannot afford to borrow to support their falling ccy. However, the real reason is because countries like Thailand chose to fix their exchange rate instead of float it. We were lucky cause soros got greedy and tried to take on sg and hk simultaneously in the third round.

        4. Making known the reserve will not directly have an impact. It will just help capital raising cause it is always much easier to tell investors I need X dollars rather than I need > X dollars.

        5. Mahathir is kinda amazing. I agree. But he is able to do that cause they got oil and gas. That is the primary driver of malaysia economy now. What does singapore have? Do you think financial services will like sg if our ccy is restricted?

        6. When the cpf is backed by the full guarantee of the sg govt, it means no matter how much money was lost, the govt will always be able to make good any cpf withdrawals regardless of gic losses. They just have to print more sgd – the govt can do that right? . Its also always possible to give 6% easily. Just print more sgd lor. But what’s the consequence of that?

        7. I’m trying to simply. You are right. The world is more complicated than the above simple analysis.

        Now, I am not an avid supporter of PAP. I hate walking into lifts in raffles and come out smelling of coconut. I ever manage south asia FT before and they are the worst ‘Talents’ I ever manage. But no matter how hard I try to fire them, they just keep coming back cause they got support from senior mgmt. In the end I just chose to resign to work in another global firm that recognize the benefits of not hiring south asian. So when PAP open the doors to them, I am never happy abt their immigration policies.

        If want to discuss transparency on GIC and Temasek, fine…but pls focus on specific deals such as Olam instead of asking for full disclosure. Full disclosure will only hurt us.

        Maybe we should ask why we are pouring money in companies run by south asian such as olam. The truth disgusts me.


      • Concerned Singaporean

        @ Ace

        Flaunting your reserve is only good if you are as rich as china (where privately led syndicates will never ever be rich enough to attack) or as poor as…..

        If we are neither, but only considered wealthy, it will make for a big fat target.

        Syndicates targeting sg will make more money than if it target a country with weak reserves. That will justify the amt of effort they need to go round the world raising funds..but if you can be a couple of hundreds of billion richer just by building a bigger bank and shorting the sgd, its definitely a very attractive strategy worth the effort.

      • Ace

        To be objective, you can always provide data from other sources of your choice.
        No need to accuse me of liking the Americans.

      • Ace

        @Concerned Singaporean
        Do you work in the banks? Even if you build a bigger bank, the deposits are customer’s money not the bank’s and these are segregated from the Bank’s actual assets.
        Do you know that it is quite difficult to short the SGD and traders will always pick the low lying fruits first meaning that targeting countries with weak reserve will have a higher success rate than targeting a country with strong reserve. For every trade you make, may not know who is betting against you. So even if you are a whale, you do not want to bet against 2 whales and a central banks with healthy reserves.
        If you are a forex trader and wants to target the SGD, don’t. You better be prepared to lose your job and unlikely to get another one in the same industry.

      • choofrfreoer

        Hello Ace, so what if we have many reserves? We can’t protect it because of our small size, lack of global political clout and open economy. That’s akin to a rich man flaunting his wealth without being able to defend himself. If you’re rich, keep quiet.

    • Ted

      U talk so much where got use? He plays dumb when u say such theory…
      He just harp on his theory can Liao…
      U think ppl here will listen?
      Ppl here r dumb and will listen to whoever gives him more money. If pap says increase 6%, do u think that Roy will stop? He’ll say why not more in a few years.
      Then more ppl will listen becos he made it before…
      So I say pap just do as they say. Have a vote on whether we can just kick them out of Singapore. And never return.
      If more than 50% vote for them to leave then they should leave. Why waste so much time here. It is democratic to vote, right?

      • Ding hua

        Hi Ted, I like opinionated people. I will listen when you speak. Can we chat?

    • uncle lim

      @ concerned singaporean.
      Are you telling us (singaporeans) to work here and buy a house, groceries, build our families, sent our cchildren to sch and see doctors IN MALAYSIA?

    • uncle lim

      @ concerned singaporean
      Are you telling us (singaporeans) to work here and to build and feeds our families IN MALAYSIA?

  15. PAP will destroy Singapore

    Middle class and lower class Singapooreans have been betrayed by the PAP, sold out to rich foreigners and the elite who can zoom around in their Ferraris and lambroghinis. The pap keeps telling regular Singaporeans they are dumb idiots. Thank you Roy for taking on the Goliath and the fami-LEE.

    • Laurence

      Yes regular Singaporeans like Roy who goes to Europe for holiday and save money by eating plain rice at cafe as his total life savings only consist of $5000.

      • webex

        @ Laurence. What is the point you are trying to make? Are you jealous of Roy going to Europe for a holiday? Do you know him that well or that there are published info on his travels?

        And are you belittling his savings of $5000? I presume you have millions eh.

        What Roy has in his savings is not my concern. What he is saying about CPF is my interest.

      • Laurence

        Not when his best friend is the one who first brought up the issue of Roy’s savings in regards to the court case and it is well known that he went to Europe shortly before this whole fiasco.

        Unfortunately, my savings are only ordinary, but definitely more than $5000 although I still can’t afford to go to Europe for a holiday.

        For someone who analyse finance data, he sure doesn’t have any idea on how to save if he has only $5000 left after going to Europe.

    • choofrfreoer

      Watch what you are saying. The “rich” and “elite” are and will always be a part of any society, unlike the government which can be replaced. Isolating a segment of society as a target for the rest is frankly bad politics and divides the population.

      Attack the PAP all you will. But I would advise you to refrain from attacking a part of society. I am a patriot and will advocate for ISD to investigate these instigations if you do continue with them as this is a threat to our social harmony.

      • Thank You choofrfeoer

        Thanks for speaking up for us rich people.
        It’s good to know that the PAP government and ISD is working hard to defend our billions.

      • LHL

        Ministers/MPs means they are cream of the crop? And Cream of the crop means they definitely ought to have high pay? What about the govt officers of other countries? Aren’t they also cream of the crop? Why aren’t the govt officers of other countries who are managing a much bigger state getting higher salaries?

      • choofrfreoer

        NO WAY! The ministers of other countries aren’t the cream of the crop.

        But can I point out to you that in Singapore, yes you can say there is a profit motive in becoming PM because the job pays good cash. However, in other states (like the U.S.), you first have to be rich to pay campaign expenses, then only you can be PM. The reason why ministers in other states are paid so lowly is because they have other jobs as well.

        Which is a more meritocratic system? One which pays highly to the person who is chosen by the electorate, or one which requires a person to be rich to enter politics?

  16. sgkeyboardwarrior

    To tokcokwhodon’tknow

    Why the fuck are you still here bitching if you don’t like this guy’s face or his blog? Nothing better to do other than cow bear cow bull is it?

    • webex

      Fully agree. Some here have nothing better to do than to display their lack of ability to debate the issue. So they throw mud around and try to poke at Roy.

      There is a need for a healthy debate. I am reading what Roy writes with an open mind. Nice that someone like him has spent a lot of time doing research. It demands a lot of efforts. He has his good points and is entitled to ask for answers.

      • choofrfreoer

        I don’t deny that his statistics are wrong. But his conclusions are carefully skewed towards his final objective: To show how Singapore has suffered under the PAP.

        1) When Roy Ngerng shows a graph, he shows say 10 different countries for say, cost of living, and shows Singapore as the highest. He then proceeds to conclude that Singapore has one of the highest costs of living in the world. Is this true? No. His graph only shows that Singapore has one of the highest costs of living among the 9 countries he chose to compare with.

        2) Roy Ngerng then proceeds to commit many other fallacies, mainly that of correlation does not imply causation. He takes two different statistics and attempts to draw links between them, assuming that one affects the other.

        3) Roy Ngerng doesn’t understand basic economics. Like I said, he once said that printing money would solve inflation. This just goes to show that he views wealth in nominal terms, not the intrinsic value in real terms.

        4) Roy Ngerng doesn’t think of the long term. Sure, increasing wages would solve inflation in the short term. But anyone who has even read economics before would know that this would decrease the aggregate supply and lead to supply-side inflation. Then, our export products (Singapore’s economy relies heavily on exports) would be uncompetitive, no one would buy them, and we would end up like Japan. Economists all know that between demand-side inflation and supply-side inflation, supply-side inflation is way worse and harder to mitigate. Does Roy Ngerng know this simple fact?

        5) Roy Ngerng said he speaks on the behalf of poor Singaporeans. That is good. But has he spoken to the middle-class, upper-middle and high class Singaporeans? Does he understand what they want? A true politician exists to balance the needs and wants of the entire population, not pander to the wishes of just one segment of society

      • tokcok who dont know

        sorry hor… I didnt “poke” at roy. I’m don’t do such things.

      • Ace

        Since you have such detailed clever information, may I suggest that you start another blog and present the graph the way you like it. Will you have people reading it? Will people disagree with you? What would your reaction be?
        Roy took a position and stuck to it. No flip flop or re-think or U-turn. You only choose to see the glass presented by Roy as half empty, others choose to see it as half full.

        Who is right? Judging from what I see in Parliament debate recently and PAP MPs bring up the CPF issue and asking for changes, I lean towards the latter.

      • Ted

        If he start another blog then how ppl here know his thoughts without leaving this blog?
        He comment here cannot meh?

      • michelle kwan

        I can see many of the PAP hired commentators throwing mud around, attacking him as a person instead of his points. Then, if they can’t convince you, they start confusing you by saying things Roy has never said and accusing Roy of this and that. Very typical PAP tactic. Discerning readers like myself will not be fooled by their antics.

      • Ted

        U not trolling meh?
        U troll then not trolling, other ppl trolling then is trolling.
        U stupid is it?
        Wake up lah… Every body here is trolling except for Roy. Becos this is his blog…

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        I know you obviously don’t have brains, but can you at least pretend to be not so stupid?

        THIS IS ROY’S BLOG. If you don’t like the shit this guy posted to share with us, guess what? You don’t have to stick around here! You can go crawling back to whatever shithole you were crapped out from, and you’d be doing everyone here a favor.

        Instead, you choose to stick around a blog which you obviously hate so much, and stalk Roy whom you obviously hate too, then cow bear cow bull here the whole fucking day. Then still dare to pretend you are not a troll?

        Are you really that damn fucking stupid?

      • Ted

        Nope, I like Roy
        I dun gay like him. But if he can open the coffers, I will like him. Destroy sg also no problem with me. I am quite good at my work. And I have the ability to move to another country. Which most of u dun… If Roy can squeeze more money for me to migrate then why I reject him?
        I think I dun like the smell of money?
        Cpf v little only, I am hoping he spilt Singapore up and remove Gic and all glc…. That’s where the big money is….

      • Ace

        Don’t make any sense. Anyone can start their own blog and state their point of view and not necessary to hog other people’s blog. That way you can have CONTROL and can block, delete or censor the comment of people who do not agree.

      • choofrfreoer

        Discerning readers my foot hahaha. I see no one has bothered to point out if any of my points are invalid. They just go “this guy is writing against Roy Ngerng. he must be supporting PAP. therefore I shall proceed to ignore him.”

        Sure, shut your ears to all criticisms. That’s always the best way to defend one’s ego.

      • Why So Scared ?

        /// A true politician exists to balance the needs and wants of the entire population, not pander to the wishes of just one segment of society ///

        So are you saying that PAP’s Prime Minister Lee is a “true politician” ?
        Are you saying that PAP’s Prime Minister Lee balances the needs and wants of all Singaporeans … and thus does not need to apologize for anything?

        And I thought PAP’s Prime Minister said he needed more alien billionaires in Singapore ?
        Is that to create more jobs for aliens in Singapore OR
        more jobs for PAP citizens in Singapore OR
        more jobs for ordinary Singaporeans ?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior

        Don’t worry, tokcok. No one here thinks you’re capable of “poking”. Bo lan jiao how to poke?

      • Ted

        So u have LAN jio or not?
        U know if Roy is the male or female in his gay partner?
        Or r u his gay partner?
        So how? U male or female?
        I always interested to find out, both gay have LAN jio. So can they become male one day and change to female the next?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        So not only are you retarded and spastic, you are homophobic as well. Good to know.

        Are you racist too?

      • Ted

        In what way am I racist? I just talk about gays. Did I specify their race?
        I think u need glasses….
        Or maybe u r racists urself. By calling someone else racist, does not absolve ur racist behavior.

  17. Pingback: 6 things you might have missed about the ‘Return Our CPF’ protest if you weren’t at Hong Lim Park | Mothership.SG
  18. webex

    I have pasted this site on my Favorities List. I did not hear of Roy until the big lawsuit started. Now I am reading with interest.

    I too am quite fed-up with the bureaucracy around CPF when it comes to trying to withdraw what I see is my lifelong savings. And the more the government tries to side-step the issues and use blunt force (lawsuits among them), the more will be the anger and disgust generated.

    In many nations it is the long campaigner that persists and who is willing to be a martyr, that finally succeeds to change a nation’s course of history . While Roy is not ranked among the Giants like Nelson Mandela, Mahtma Gandhi or Suu Kyi, he looks like an emerging giant.

    And making him a martyr will not kill off all debate. Others may rise and take his place.

    Singapore is indeed at a cross-road. And cross-roads mean some will take a different road. Others will push on to success.

    • choofrfreoer

      Can I point out to you that the lawsuit is a civil suit between two individuals? It is not a criminal suit launched by the AGC against an individual.

      Anyone can sue anyone, even if there isn’t any good reason. That’s a right afforded by the Constitution. Roy could also sue LHL, or you could sue LHL on Roy’s behalf. Now, whether the case has merit or not is up to the courts to decide.

      You could say LHL is tarnishing is own reputation by suing. But he is well within his rights to take such an action, as a citizen of Singapore like the rest of us.

      And unless Roy Ngerng is jailed by the ISD, I wouldn’t even classify him with those people you mentioned. Has Roy Ngerng worked the ground? Has he spoken to Singaporeans, rich and poor to find out more? Has he made the effort to ensure his analyses are sound? Is he even competent? Or is he simply a demagogue speaking from the heart and not the head? Frankly, mentioning Roy Ngerng in the same sentence as those freedom fighters is a disgrace to their legacies.

      • Why So Scared ?

        /// Frankly, mentioning Roy Ngerng in the same sentence as those freedom fighters is a disgrace to their legacies. ///

        If Roy is no threat to PAP, then why so scared?
        Why are you here doing your best to belittle Roy on behalf of PAP?
        Is there something more to PAP’s CPF that Singaporeans need to know through better transparency and access to facts?

      • tokcok who dont know

        choofrfreor, roy hasnt done allthat u said in your last paragraph. he is an ordinary singaporean remember?

      • Ted

        I totally agree that Roy is very good at fanning some ppl emotions… But is pap scared? I dun think so…
        Regardless, Roy when can I see my cpf, when is Gic releasing everything to us? Show us the money, when we have money the world is our oyster, why care abt this little red dot? So what if u grew up here…. Just remember, I deserve more than the rest here. I was supporting u all the way…

      • Ace

        Of course you can use the maximum option available to you but the question is should you.
        China has nuclear weapons but should they use it when some countries disagree with them or when PM made fun of their leaders saying that there is free pork soup in the river and free smoke when they open their window.

        The world would be a much better place if all disputes can be settled using the cheapest and simplest option rather than the other way round.

      • choofrfreoer

        So if I “belittle” Roy Ngerng, it means I support the PAP? Wow.

        I hate the PAP. But what I hate more are people pretending to be experts.

        If a smart person who doesn’t listen to people criticising him is called an arrogant fellow (e.g. PM Lee), what would you call a dumb person assuming he is smart and doesn’t listen to people (e.g. Roy Ngerng)?

  19. Being The Boss

    A united Singapore? Seriously?
    You never heard of divide and rule ?
    Singapore is divide and rule.
    PAP is also divide and rule.

    You think it is easy to boss over ordinary Singaporeans?
    You think it is easy to boss over PAP Singaporeans ?

    It is not about doing good.
    It is about being the boss.

    It is not about being fair and transparent.
    It is about being the boss.

    Why do i want to be the boss?
    So that I can pursue my dreams.
    My dreams that I tell you are your dreams.
    My values that I tell you are your values.

    Who am I?
    How many bosses have you had?
    I am THAT boss.

  20. Chua

    Thanks for the many good replies. Learnt quite a bit on economics and possible reasons for lack of transparency of reserve size.
    On the pay issues, though I do not deny most of the ministers will likely get better paid at private sector, it is still difficult to justify if they claimed big personal sacrifice in pay but keep mum while lining their pockets from other government related portfolio due to their station. There are self actualisation from politics that cannot be measured in economics terms and to receive any hidden remuneration plus their not so modest minister pay is a step too far for many struggling Singaporeans. The point is I am not sure if it is happening and deeply curious. Hopefully MOF or the Ministers will again provide more clarity on this.

    • Ace

      I pointed this out to Choofrfreoer.
      When you have little reserves, the reason you cited for not making public our reserves may be valid.
      Singapore has one of the strongest reserves and actually it is to our advantage to flaunt it. If you are the Forex dealer, would you choose the country with the strongest reserve to attack or one with a weak reserve?

      What Choofrfreoer said is pure fallacy.

      • Ted

        Agreed but I really need my share of the taking once Roy is successful. I contribute a lot of my cpf and taxes. So I deserve a lot more than others…

      • choofrfreoer

        Do you know what a fallacy is? You used the wrong term.

        And so what if Singapore has one of the strongest reserves. Do you know how susceptible Singapore is to hot money changes? How many times do I have to say that Singapore is an export-oriented economy and is very vulnerable to the global economy? Singapore is not China, U.S. or the E.U. Our reserves can disappear in a flash and our domestic consumption will not be able to compensate for obvious reasons – we only have 5 million people.

        Please read up on the Impossible Trinity. You should know that Singapore cannot control hot money inflows. And you should first understand the destruction such hot money inflows can wreak on a small, open economy like Singapore’s.

        I’d hardly call myself an economics expert, but I definitely know more than Roy Ngerng. It’s interesting that you choose not to listen to me, but believe Roy Ngerng. All I can say is – I hope that you will read more into economical theory.

  21. Ted

    If we let ppl withdraw from cpf completely at 55. We will need a guarantor for these ppl that they will not ask the ppl of Singapore to help them anymore.
    I suggests that Roy and his fans be such a guarantor. This is the only way to allow ppl to withdraw without affecting the others in sg.
    What do u say Roy?
    I know u not gg to reply la… U always dun reply the comments directed at u.

    • Xmen

      If we let ppl withdraw from cpf completely at 55. We will need a guarantor for the government that they have the money to pay back Singaporeans
      I suggests that you and your fans be such a guarantor. This is the only way to allow ppl to withdraw without affecting the others in sg.
      What do u say Ted?
      I know u not gg to reply la… U always dun reply the comments directed at u.

      STOP trolling. Go find a day job.

      • Ted

        So, my question is not valid, and Roy’s question is valid…
        Where is the freedom of speech?

    • Ace

      Will you get a guarantor to confirm that should CPF change for the better from Roy’s articles, you will be excluded from it? This is to ensure that you do not profit from what you do not believe in.

      • Ted

        Sure. But only if Roy signs too that he will take care of all those who withdraw.
        I no problem, not like u ppl so stupid. Only have cpf…

      • Ted

        So how? Did u talk to Roy? Did he agree?
        I really willing to sign on the dotted line if he agrees too…
        Why? He chickened out, is it?

      • Ted

        Idiot ace
        Got nothing to say once I proofed him wrong….
        Another useless Roy fan…

      • Ace

        First of all, I do not stay on the computer all the time. I have a life, OK.
        You are getting personal. Calling people names does not win a debate.
        You ask people to get guarantor to not ask for help once they spend their CPF money and I ask you to do the same so that when improvement in made on the CPF system, you are excluded. This is to show you that such proposal makes no sense.
        Are we not “one united people”, and we may be side by side when called upon to defend our land in the future.

        Nothing to do with Roy.
        I do not know Roy personally and I am not sure whether you know him but I know his writing. I do not agree with all that he wrote but there are many valid points.

        I don’t think it is right to try and character assassinate him or anyone else.

        By the way, here is food for thoughts.

        “If you’re not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
        ―Malcolm X

      • Ted

        U write so much crap just to deny the fact that you n ur friends know that once ppl withdraw (if given the choice) their cpf will suffer once they lose all there cpf.
        So why still advocating this nonsense of returning cpf?
        I dare to put my money where I speak. Do u dare to? If so, Make it public.
        Talk like a man and act like a chicken. Worse than the chicken jokes from ur friends

  22. Ted

    This kind of freedom of speech advocated by Roy’s fans r v one way… Only allow them to talk and when others talk, it’s trolling.
    Dumb ppl…

    • sgkeyboardwarrior

      You call other ppl dumb, and still dare to say you are not trolling?

      Are you fucking retarded?

      • Ted

        I’m not retard. But u seem pissed.
        R u a retard?
        Does retard know how to be pissed?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        Yes you are. You are retarded and spastic. Call other ppl dumb, still can claim not to be a troll. What a fucking stupid idiot you are.

      • Ted

        So r u.
        Down here got ppl f here and f there… Gay here and gay there also can…
        But cannot scold ppl stupid and retard when they r…
        Dun u find that a bit retarded? Or u cannot comprehend the meaning?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        I didn’t want to dignify whatever crap you just spewed with a response. But seriously, learn to talk properly. Cannot speak Queen’s English, nevermind. But at least learn how to talk properly.

      • Ted

        @…. Warrior
        U mean u spoke queens English?
        Did the queen use “f” as often as u?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior

        Wah piang eh…. I never say I speak queens English. I say that YOU need to speak properly!

        I give up.

      • Ted

        Give up? U r so dumb.
        Usually, when ppl dare to comment on others’ Langauge will mean he is better than the other party.
        Omg… Can u wake up ur idea???
        Not as if ur English is very good…

    • Ace

      Did Roy block you, delete your comment or censor your comment?
      A sample of freedom of speech which I am sure you enjoy otherwise you won’t be here.

  23. Greg

    Greg here again. Once again, I’m someone from the USA, no connections to Singapore beyond a friend or two who I follow on face book, and I have not donated, because I firmly believe that this is an issue for the people of Singapore to deal with and decide on, not an outsider like me. That being said, I have learned so much off the posts here (although I must say, one of the weird things I learned is that your culture seems to be unwilling to type “you” and use “u” instead.

    Outsider point of view here, based on things that have happened in the USA. While we are a very new country in terms of the world, we have had the same constitution for quite a bit longer than you have (yet).

    1. Almost all new ideas come from outsiders of politics. We’ve had our leaders (Senators, Congressmen) start as everything from shoe salesmen to astronauts. People inside the system tend to stick to the same ideas they are used to. Outsiders don’t know what is impossible, so sometimes they do the impossible. While I don’t agree with the group in the USA that calls themselves the “Tea Party” (google it) they sure are trying the impossible.

    2. Influence comes from what our president Teddy Roosevelt called “The Bully Pulpit”. In short, if you are in the right place to be heard, that is where influence comes from. He was referring to the position of the president, where he felt the ability to speak as president was much more important than his Veto power or other powers. Roy is demonstrating that.

    3. In the USA we believe that the power of government is granted by the people, so anyone can become a leader.

    4. In the USA we don’t live in fear of showing our political views. I am an employer, I have many employees, quite a few of them have very different political views than I do, and some go to demonstrations, or the like. It never occurred to me that this is an issue, (unless it is done at work, but then again, my views are not shown at my place of business either. People come for food and fun, not to hear what I think.) It seems that from peoples quite donations, from people being fired in articles I’ve read in on-line Singapore news papers, that this is not as clearly the case over there. It is clear this may be illegal over there, and the people I read about being fired are suing, but it would never have gotten to that over here in the USA. It would no more have occurred to us to do it, because it would seem so strange, than it would be for someone to file a libel suit over here in the USA against a blogger.

    From an outsiders perspective, this speech of Roy’s will be remembered. There are parts that will be quoted. I can’t say if it will be remembered for good or ill, that will be decided by the people of Singapore in their History, not by someone like me. That being said, it will be remembered.

    You may not be aware, but there are quite a few of us from around the world that are following this (I am part a few groups who are analyzing, from a scholarly historical point of view as outsiders, comparing this to other events from history.) this , because we think history is being made right now, and we are fascinated at what history the people of Singapore will choose to make.

    One last thing. While I have been treated very nicely on these forums, some of your posters make my fellow citizens of the USA look polite, and frankly we are a very rude bunch. Singapore is a first world country, but you really don’t have to emulate the USA’s rudeness. There has to be a better example to follow.

    • another average singaporean

      1. I rather have the people inside the system stick to the same old idea than groundbreakers deciding to shutdown the government. In my opinion, that is called irresponsible and attention-seeking. Why not engage in intellectual discussion than engage in such sensationalist behaviour?
      2. Yes, but if you are going to speak up about an issue. Do it with facts that is substantiated. Roy Ngerng facts rarely show the full picture but rather used to support his one-sided arguments about how we Singaporeans are suffering so greatly from the PAP government.
      3. And that is how the tea-party came about.
      4. I think you must be referring to the Singapore in the past. As far as I can see, people are liberally posting their anti-PAP sentiments on facebook and I don’t see those people lamenting their loss of jobs due to their political inclination.

      I am really sad that you chose to remember Roy Ngerng’s speech rather than speeches made by truly outstanding individuals in the history of Singapore.

      And if you are truly observing, please note that history is not being made right now. Roy Ngerng may be a prolific individual now but he will simply fade into the background if he simply rehashes the same argument again and again and without substantiated facts. And not everyone supports him, 6000 people are not the majority because the last I checked, Singapore population is certainly more than 10000. I think you will be better off observing the Worker Party rather a self-declared people champion blogger if you want to observe history being made.

      • Xmen

        @”another average Singaporean” is just another PAP troll.

        1. Where are the Intellectual discussions you talk about? In local newspapers, magazines, radio and TV shows? The only intellectual discussions are happening on the Internet where the government does not have complete control (yet).

        2. RN has demonstrated persistence and hard work in putting the facts together. He may or may not have come to a correct conclusion but I won’t blame him for not trying and I have no doubt about his sincerity. On the other hand, the PAP has been hiding important financial information from the people of Singapore for a prolonged period of time (half a century?). Singaporeans are suffering from a lack of transparency. In finance, the secrecy usually does not end well. The people of Singapore have a right to demand transparency and accountability.

        4. Here you have a local politician attempting to bankrupt a citizen blogger. As Greg said, this does not happen in the USA.

      • another average singaporean

        1. Oh right, it is happening on the Real Singapore or the Online Citizen where everyone is slamming and cursing the government for everything that happens. Even the small cut that you got when cutting fruits. Yes it is happening on sites such as the breakfast network or the yawning bread but certainly not on this site where anyone who wants to provide an alternative viewpoint is immediately labelled as a PAP supporter.
        2. But has Roy Ngerng been transparent that his facts are inadequate and do not provide the complete picture? Somehow his posts don’t seem so. Has he answered people questions about the validity of his data? Somehow he failed to do so. If that is the case, would not that make him on the same level as the PAP government for not being transparent?
        Why would I want to back a non-transparent individual against a non-transparent government? Why can’t I not support any of these two parties and instead go for Worker’s Party?
        3. Yeah, I agree a lawsuit is overkill but why did Roy Ngerng even posted such an unsubstantiated post in the first place or renege on his apology? Mr Miyagi and Mrbrown has been posting critiques about government for more than 2 years and they have yet to receive a lawsuit.

      • Xmen

        @”another average Singaporean”

        1. Unfortunately, opposing viewpoints do not even get to appear on the State Times, radio and TV shows. At least no one has prevented you from trolling here yet. I see more PAP trolls here than RN’s supporters. So stop complaining.
        2. I strongly recommend that you visit Prof Balding’s blog if you are so interested to find out more about CPF. RN has provided more information than your PAP government is willing to. Have you not read that PAP has been busy updating (“rewriting”) CPF, GIC, and Temasek websites after criticisms brought up by RN? IMHO accusing RN of being non-transparent is a bit of a stretch. You are right on PAP being secretive. If PAP is being transparent, we won’t be arguing here because the FACT will speak for itself. A reason to support RN is to force PAP to be accountable. I think that’s RN’s greatest contribution to the cause. Singapore has the world’s highest forced savings yet are the worst prepared for retirement. Don’t you see something is terribly wrong here?
        3. Even if RN has made a mistake, and trust me it is very difficult to speak your mind and watch EVERY single word you write, there is NO REASON to BANKRUPT him. You don’t cut off a thief’s hand, you don’t send a LGBT to a firing squad, so why do you impose lifelong grief on someone simply because he misspoke? Is the PM’s “reputation” so important that he is free to bankrupt his critics in his public career? You simply don’t see Obama or Cameron going after their critics, do you?

      • another average singaporean

        1. So I gather that if my views do not echo RN, I am considered a troll? So I do not have my freedom of speech to oppose RN viewpoint? Why can’t I oppose both RN and the PAP? So it is a case of if you are not with us, you are against us?
        2. Not answering people questions and not admitting that you do not use your data correctly means that you are not transparent. So if the PAP were to do the same, would you accuse them of being non-transparent? If yes, then why are you applying different standards to RN versus the PAP?
        But why are you bringing in Prof Blading blog? We are comparing RN facts versus PAP facts.
        I am sorry I won’t support RN in forcing PAP to be accountable because I disagree with his methods. If we were to support his methods, we are setting a precedent that future people can simply engage in sensationalism to get whatever they want instead of going through proper channels such as setting up a political party etc.
        A reason NOT to support RN is because I support the WP. They have more credibility and professionalism than RN. I think RN’s greatest contribution is letting us Singaporeans knowing what we do not want our opposition representatives to be like.
        May I know where are the figures for your statement of ”Singapore has the world’s highest forced savings yet are the worst prepared for retirement”?
        3. It is easy to watch EVERY word you write. That principle is called professionalism. Ask any students and they will tell you that they review their essays thoroughly before handing in. They do NOT write unsubstantiated stuff. If you want to post something up for public scrutiny, have the diligence to do your homework. No point churning out one hundred substandard blog post when you can write one excellent analytical post.
        It is easy to watch EVERY word you speak. That principle is called self-discipline.

        If RN did make a mistake then he should have just attempt a settlement at the start instead of filming new Youtube videos. And why did RN renege on his apology? I strongly recommend that you read this blog to see and tell me

      • Xmen

        1. First we have to agree that this is RN’s blog. When people are rambling without any insights or thoughts (and there are many), they are trolling. Just go read the first few comments you posted here… This thing about “if you are not with us, you are against us” sounds so PAP. Further, I believe RN would love to debate the PM.
        2. I am not sure why you are arguing about “forcing PAP to be accountable.” Shouldn’t that be non-negotiable? That is accountability and transparency is not something you can negotiate away. People have been asking for accountability since before former President Ong asked the same questions. You sounded naïve when you mentioned the “proper channels” (btw, this is exactly what PAP wants you think and it apparently works!)
        Why Prof Balding? If you are interested in the truth, does it matter if it is from PAP, RN, or Balding? It sounds like you are NOT interested in the main topic of discussion – CPF accountability – so why are you here but trolling?
        Why would anyone here be interested to know that you support the WP? Don’t you think it is off topic?
        As to my statement “Singapore has the world’s highest forced savings yet are the worst prepared for retirement” Hmm… you can probably find it in one of the hundreds of blog entries here (I am sure there are references) … 😉
        3. As I mentioned somewhere here, CPF, Temasek, and GIC have been busy updating their website to reflect RN’s criticism. You are dealing with organizations that manage hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars. Don’t you think they need to watch EVERY word they write?

        Finally, Anyhowhantam? Hahaha….I better stop here. .

      • Ding hua

        Hi Ted, you are right. Chris outtalk me a few times. I am not his match. You can outtalk me too… But first, how long is your chopstick?

      • another average singaporean

        1. I am replying in the same manner to those comments who also do not have any insights or thoughts?
        And the thing about “if you are not with us, you are against us sounds so PAP”. I am asking you a question: Are you implying that I can only side PAP or RN. Why can’t I have my own viewpoints that does not agree with either?
        2. Please answer the question. Why RN is considered transparent when he does not answering people questions and not admitting that you do not use your data correctly? If that is the case, would not that make him on the same level as the PAP government for not being transparent?
        Like I said, we are comparing RN versus the PAP. Please do not digress.
        So you are saying that the Worker Party’s or CST efforts are for naught? They should not have set up a party to contest democratically but should have started a blog?
        3. Please answer the question. Why RN who is an individual and not an organisation cannot be professional in his research and self-disciplined in his response?
        And you did not answer this question. But why did Roy Ngerng even posted such an unsubstantiated post in the first place or renege on his apology? Mr Miyagi and Mrbrown has been posting critiques about government for more than 2 years and they have yet to receive a lawsuit.

        And judging the quality of the blog by it’s name? Judging a book by it’s cover? Open the link and read the content. That in my honest opinion, IS quality blogging and does not engage in sensationalism.

    • Ted

      Take care of ur own country biz before poking ur nose here. No offence but what has Singapore gotta do with u?

      • Xmen


        Hmm… I thought Singapore welcome FT (Foreign Talent.) So when a FT shares his view here, you want him to shut up? Remember he is a TALENT. I’m not so sure about YOU digit (at least according to your PAP leadership.)

        P.s. Apparently you have been following all the gossips online… Again, go find a day job like Chris. He is finally working now.

      • Greg

        Nothing but study. I hope I’ve made that clear. I don’t think many of you appreciate how different your approach is from other cultures. There is a huge amount to learn here. I have tried to be careful with my words since I don’t have a side. I can’t tell, and for what I am studying here it does not matter to me if Roy has lied, told the truth or if he has good ideas. That is your business. I am on the other hand interested in as one other poster put it “the rule of law” but not just that, I am interested in the protectios that prevent the abuse of the rule of law. Every country deals or has dealt with this.

        This speach will be remembered I think. But not for your retirement plans, not for the accusations, but because Singapore is a first world county with a political system that has not caught up to that fact.

        Not that things are better by nature in the USA. We have more poor in the USA than we have any reason to have. We have almost a million homeless people here. People die from lack of heath care they can’t afford that our government can not or will not provide, so dont think I’m saying that we are better. I am saying that seeing how your country is developing politically, as all countries do is hapoening from a different direction that is distinct due to your history, and I think to a large point. Your population density. This last bit will challenge the world as we reach to 10 billion on the planet.

        You may find that what is happening here will provide the framework for much of the world in the next 50 years. Only time will tell.

        That is why I have become active here.

      • Ted

        How I know he ft or et?
        Talk so much…. Fly here lah…
        Ft is working here not talk cock over his home country.
        So, xmen, u like ft so much then ask him to come stay in ur house lah…

      • another average singaporean

        May I know what on Earth are you studying? I am highly confused as to what exactly are you studying and your topics of interest.

        By your definition of a first world political system, a blogger can provide insinuation, incomplete data and engage in sensationalism and yet be proclaimed as the people’s champion. Sorry I think I rather have another system.
        And please go google Chiam See Tong, Sylvia Lim or J. B. Jeyaretnam. I think their speeches are more memorable and note-worthy than a self-proclaimed people champion.

        I am afraid to disappoint you, our country is not that significant enough to provide the framework for the rest of the world. We are only a small red dot whose next 50 years survival is still questionable.

      • Greg

        @another Singaporean

        Perhaps in 20 or 30 years we can sit back and have a drink and look back at history, bit you asked why I was interested. The more I learn from all of this the more I realize how much of culture is dictated by population density. I’m already applying this to things that ate happening in the USA (mind you the issues here are based on low population density) in 1776 the soon to be USA was a bunch of wild Farmers with new ideas. These ideas spread as places needed them, changing to be that countries solutions not that of he USA. Singapores solutions as effected by your culture I think will be more influencal that you think on the world.

        I wonder. If you can truly understand what politics is like where I live. My city is three times the size of Singapore, with only about 350k people in it. I can no more truly understand what it would be like to grow up there. But I can learn from the decisions your country makes.

    • Greg

      Xman. To be clear. This did happen in our history too. About 150 years ago. Measures were taken to prevent it. I’ve listed in other posts what the protections we have decided to inact In the USA, but I will not assume these are right for you. The correct solution will be one from Singapore not the USA, but while I have asked, nobody has told me of an existing protection from potential abuse of the system that exists. I’d love to understand how others deal with the same threats.

      • Ted

        American dude.
        Which part of “stay out of Singaporeans affairs” do u not understand?

      • Xmen


        The USA has checks and balances – Judicial, Executive, and Legislative. It also has a Constitution.

        What does Singapore have? PAP. In the past 50 or so year, PAP has changed the Constitution at will (it always has super majority.) It is entrenched and uses its power to stay in power (changes the voting system to suit itself.) It appoints the Judiciary. It creates and defines the role of an elected President (PAP is now talking about abolishing it because its chosen presidential candidate managed to win with a meager 35% vote in the last 3-way contest.)

        Individuals have NO rights in Singapore. Believe it or not, there is a current law against protest by ONE or more persons (used to be 4.) If you think of it, this place is no different than North Korea in many ways.

        However, it is a super business friendly place and always ranks among the top in those areas.

        You can learn a lot more just by visiting Wikipedia. Avoid anything from local mainstream media. They are official publications.

      • Greg

        I have been reading mainstream, non main stream. Blogs. I’m open to suggestions of what to read.

        The hardest issue I have is some of you abbreviations. Thankfully I have a few friends over there who have helped me with this. I may have a useful abbreviations translation chart here when I’m done.

        Ted: no reason to be rude. Most folks here have been helpful in directing me to more information.

      • Xmen

        There are a few dissidents in exile. Francis Seow has written a few books on Singapore. If you want to understand Singapore during LKY, read his work.

      • Greg

        You are the second person to use the initials LKY. I assume is stands for someone’s name like we call one of our past presidents JFK. Could you help me here?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        Which part of YOU FUCK OFF don’t YOU understand?

        Spastic female dogs in heat like you should fuck off somewhere else to suck cock instead of staying here being a spastic shit eating troll.

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        You tell Ted no reason to be rude? You might as well tell him to stop eating shit, cos’ he’s not going to stop either.

        He is spastic, homophobic, and definitely a racist too. Just by being american, you already piss him off.

        And this is not even his blog. Why the hell would someone have a problem with someone from another country posting on a blog that doesn’t belong to him?

        Don’t answer that question.

      • Ted

        @ both American lovers
        I dun like foreigners that poke their nose here… Cannot meh?
        Who is this idiot American doing here? Even his president also dun poke here.
        What is his freaking problem? Did we ask for an American lesson learnt? Americans cause so much misery by allowing the financial crisis and many wars…

      • Ted

        R u gay? Why? U gay friend with Roy?
        Why always poke ur nose here? Did Chee SJ ask u to come? Ask u to come then u come? U two r lovers is it?

      • Greg

        I do not apologize for my government. It has made mistakes that the whole world is paying for, but it has done good too. The more I learn the more I see that Singapore is the modle of the future. I’m here because in many ways if you figure out how to make things work in your population density, you will lead the world in how to do this. You can’t see from your vantage point but the world could be modeled off Singapore. If I am right, of course I want to learn from what’s important.

        Think. With 3billion more people on the planet if we dont want to convert farm land to housing, will cities look more like mine or yours?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        What is your fucking lan jiao problem? Who set law saying american’s cannot come to SG blog to tokkoksingsong? You not happy ah? You go and sue him lah! Go tell the court, he is American, but he want to tokkok like SG, you buesong, want to sue him until his pants drop.

        Trolls are welcomed. Americans are not. Yay.

      • Greg

        Here is another cultural difference. Gays are accepted here to the point that same sex marrage now has government status. If you want to insult me at least follow my culture enough to find one I may care about. Might I suggest you imply I enjoy Justin Timberlake or another pop star.

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        You actually think you can communicate with this femaledog/troll/racist/homophobe.

        Good luck with that.

      • Ted

        That’s the thing. This American dude is really ass. If ppl never ask u for opinion then shut up. Why? Is shut up not understood by u?
        Since u know our cultures r different then please respect our culture and go away!!!!
        Why? U wan to impose ur culture on us as well?

      • Greg


        You don’t know how much I wish I understood more of that last post. Was that slang, abbreviations, or some form of pidegon?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior



        I’m saying, if he’s not happy with your presence here, he can go sue you in court like some great glorious leader who shall not be named.

        I’m also telling you, good luck communicating with him. He’s rascist and homophobic, and has made no attempts to hide it.

      • Greg


        Its not hopeless, he pointed me to someone who’s soeaches I should read. Frankly I’m sad that his insults are so boring and obvious. My county is rude, but not quite as rude as ted here. Mind you we are much more creative with our rudeness.

        Why am I so nice to him? Well I’m not here to be a troll, I’m not here to argue. If I want to learn from you I need you all to realize that. I need to be polite and not rise to any bait.

        I care about the process, the results of the process is for the people of Singapore to decide. That being said I have learned so much, and in many ways I’ve seen thongs in the USA that are now obvious, but were not before I stated reading Herr SBD elsewhere.

      • sgkeyboardwarrior

        Greg, can’t say I find any point in that approach. But good luck with that.

      • Greg


        This is the post I did not understand but wished I did. Looks like some creative insults. It is in a form of pigeon isn’t it?

        “What is your fucking lan jiao problem? Who set law saying american’s cannot come to SG blog to tokkoksingsong? You not happy ah? You go and sue him lah! Go tell the court, he is American, but he want to tokkok like SG, you buesong, want to sue him until his pants drop.

        Trolls are welcomed. Americans are not. Yay”.

      • Xmen


        “the world could be modeled off Singapore”

        Are you kidding? ACLU and Amnesty International should go after you. If you admire Singapore so much, live there and be prepared to give up your Constitutional rights.

        This is the most insane statement an American can make. Shame on you!

      • Ted

        Two American lovers trying to suck up to an American.
        To be fair, America is a great country. But it is full of ppl who dun mind their own biz. When they have high human trafficking within their land, they can still have the cheek to comment on other countries.
        Get lost lah… U wan then convert to sg Loh… Who r u now to comment on us Singaporeans?

      • sgkeyboardwarrior


        ….There’s not much creativity there honestly. Like I said, I’m just saying if he’s not happy with your presence here, he can go sue you in court.

        Oh well, it looks like suing people in court for no good reason is not creative at all. Who knew?

      • Greg


        Wrong direction with your argument and not clear on my end. I’ve learned here that politics are mor effected by population density than I thought. Areas as dense as yours will Br mor common as the world grows. How you come to grasp with this I hope will be a good solution that can be adapted. Clearly there are large parts of your culture that could not apply here and the reverse is true.

        That being said, I think you will find the creation of more city states a reality in 10 years, not in the USA, but in Europe. Possibly eastern Europe. And they will face the same challanges you are.

        We’ve gotten away from where I started, but someone referred to Singapore as a spot on a map. It could be that way, but I think there could be more.

      • Ted

        Of cos, I have no way to stop u. But u have no way to stop me as well… Some more, I won’t know if u r really American or American wannabe….
        Still, get lost

      • Ace

        When a foreigner supports you, they are accepted and welcome. When a foreigner disagree with you, you tell them not to meddle in our affairs.
        Sounds familiar like this is not flip flop, it is just a shift in our thinking.

      • Xmen


        The politics here is defined by LKY, period. It has little to do with population as you think. Hong Kong, Seoul and Tokyo have similar high population densities but all four cities have very different characteristics and identities. The only reason the Singapore model works here (100% PAP parliament seats!!!) is because of LKY and nothing else. Now that LKY is (almost) gone, they are losing grip of the people. Can you imagine North Korea without dear leaders Grandpa, Father, and Son. Start imagining Singapore without LKY soon…. (LHL is not even a factor in shaping today’s Singapore IMHO.)

        Your assumption that there will be more city states in Europe has any basis. So I am not going there…

        To learn more about Singapore, learn about the Man. Good luck with your research,

  24. Norman Wee


    I complimented Roy for his effort and said that he could be the LKY in the making. After hearing him speak at Hong Lim yesterday, I am convinced my optimism has not been misplaced.

    I based my optimism on his age (about the same age when LKY start) and his gut.

    Talking of gut, Chee has gut so does the late JB Jeyaratnam. In the case of JB Jeyaratnam, the ST described him in his final days as a gaunt elderly with unravel white hair standing at street corners mumbling and selling his books.

    Roy needs not have to do that and with just a POSB a/c his legal expenses have been over-donated.

    Roy, unlike Chee and JB, has strategies and harped on issues close to Singaporeans’ heart. So his Hearttruths has touched the heart-strings of Singaporeans.

    Now CPF is a hot issue, but, mark my words, this proactive and efficient government, would turn it into a non-issue in next to no time. Public housing was an issue with Mr Lee Hsien Loong admitting the shortcomings and Mr Khaw with his magic wand turned it into a non-issue. (my HDB flat in yishun used to be surrounded by wide and empty fields but alas no more now)

    But Roy must move on and take on new issues with Singaporeans’ inputs to stay relevant.

    One more thing: since Roy has opening profess his sexual inclination, let me put in my few cents worth in this regard.

    Listen to these:
    …a male assistant of Malaysian Anwar complained about being compromised from behind…
    …a burly bodyguard of an African head of state screamed when sexually attacked from behind but no sound come out.
    …A male partner of famous fashion designer Versace killed him…

    Why? Because all the partners have no such inclination.

    Anwar’s assistant and Versace’ partners with no such orientation, would feel nightmarish and humiliated from such encounters. The burly bodyguard with no such orientation, would visualize a giant banana attacking him from behind and he was so scared that when he screamed for help, no sound come out.

    Roy, of course you have the right to love the way you choose, but pick the right men. I use “men” because most with such sexual orientation are “changing partners king”

    At Hong Lim, Roy basically touched on two areas, namely:

    1. Since GIC and Temasek use Singaporeans’ money in CPF for their global foray, they must be transparent and accountable to Singaporeans.

    2. Many Singaporeans can’t survive retirement depending on CFP and cited examples of elderly having to pick loads of cardboards and working as cleaners and other undignified jobs, “just to survive”.

    Since there is another side to a coin allow me to give my few cents worth.

    1. GIC and Temasak are corporations, albeit government one, for global foray to earn money for Singapore. Unlike statutory boards and government departments, corporations have to maintain certain corporation secrecy in order to be effective and to prevent:

    …Staff rivalries and jealousy (salaries and positions)
    …Poaching; and to maintain Corporate resilience (based on Sun Tze).

    Being transparent for the world to see is to render such corporations as “lame ducks”, in this cruel world of doing business.

    By Roy’s own admission, these government corporations are making an annual profit of between 6.5 and 16 percent. (The question is will they be able to make such profits by being transparent for the world to see.)

    As such according to Roy, the government needs to pay more the CPF members.

    But then there will have to be trade-off. The normal banking practice is when they pay an interest rate to depositors, they have to charge borrowers at double the rate. When CPF members are getting more, then borrowing costs for HDB flats and other loans will have to climb as well. That will lead to other costs escalating in tandam and resulting in lower purchasing power. It would be back to square one.

    2. Only in Singapore that one sees elderly collecting cardboards and other frills for sale. In other neighbouring countries it’s the abled bodied and the children doing it. (the abled-bodied and children in Singapore are either at work or in schools). If a survey is done by interviewing all those elderly especially the handicapped and hunchbacked found doing these undignified jobs, then we will be able to argue more sensibly on this. (I know of elderly in my area living with their children in executive flats doing it. And remember a picture of a well-dressed elderly woman picking grains of rice spilled by the roadside during the Japanese occupation. Is this a sign of poverty or an example of the virtue of not wasting things that still have value?)

    Now for the Top 10 human behaviour gleamed from countless theories, research, studies and observations:

    No. 10: One can bluff some people some of the time but not all the people all the time. (This government will want to show that Roy is bluffing and therefore fortunately only some people will want to believe.)

    No. 9: from Adam and Eve comes this…”forbidden fruit is always sweeter”. (depleting cpf is forbidden but tempting but think of the consequences)

    No. 8: A lie repeated long enough becomes the truth to the gullible. (This government will “expose” Roy’s contentions as lies or half-truth.)

    No.7: People who live in glass houses should not throw stone. (Singaporeans are living in a small area with no natural resources but surrounded all round by seas of nationalistic Malays. Throwing stone will only get themselves hurt)

    No.6: The grass is always greener on the other side. (Many talks of good life in western countries. Go and stay there and one will know the truth)

    No.5: A bird in hand is better than dozens in the bush.

    No. 4: Most of the ills we suffer are traced to our behaviour.

    No. 3: A fool and his money will soon part.

    No. 2: It takes great effort and discipline to be rational on spending money because the temptation to splurge is too overwhelming.

    No. 1: Human behaviour is incredibly pliable. (In Malaysia during every election time, the ruling party would talk of May 13. In Singapore, its ang pao time. As for this issue, it will soon be no-issue)
    Than you.

  25. michelle kwan

    I stop reading after “Mr Khaw with his magic wand turned it into a non-issue.”
    Norman, if you want to sound convincing, at least don’t make it so obvious that you are writing from a biased position.
    By taking direct reference from HDB resale price index, it is easy to see that HDB is still overpriced. Khaw has not even done anything to reverse the situation. He is just helping to maintain the property bubble so that it will not burst immediately. We are witnessing the loss generation like Japan twenty years ago. Our young will bear the brunt of PAP cocked up policies…
    The fool is always and has always been those who supported the PAP blindly.

    • Norman Wee

      Tks Michelle,
      in this world we can choose what to read and what to say. No compulsion. Everything is subjective and does not exist by itself. In city context if you say HDB is overpriced in relation to private properties, then what is cheap. If HDB does not exist maybe we all will still stay in many of the houses what we see in neighbouring countries. If those who support PAP are fools and blind then …
      Name calling in civil debates is a manifestation of …
      The men who lack “文” will curse and swear laden with expletives.

      • michelle kwan

        Norman, I mean a woman. If you can’t even tell that from my name, I suggest you stop writing instead of telling the whole world you are an idiot.

      • michelle kwan

        The whole property market in Singapore is overheated and overpriced, of course it is worst for private property. But if you can afford, GCB, it is comparitively cheaper because less competition. If you compare to neighbouring danga bay, the property here is like shit. Of course if you willing to travel across the causeway daily. But then, the price of labour is the same here in sg and there in malaysia. Yet they can afford the same thing at half the price. Then if you go up Ipoh, it is cheaper still.. Don’t anyhow hantum just because you think you are making a civil debate. The way you write is far from civil and more on a wolf in sheep skin pretending to support fairness and justice. A cloak and dagger behind. Who knows, you just stab another guy like roy. This I very sure, Norman.

      • Norman Wee

        michelle kwan at 3:24pm
        Of course I know you are a woman. That’s why you only resort to name calling. As for men they will curse and swear laden with expletives. By the way where you learn how to read?

      • Norman Wee

        @ michelle.
        I also know there are 3 types of Gay…1…2…3. Roy is number 3 type.
        Now from what you commented earlier…
        “I can see many of the PAP hired commentators throwing mud around, attacking him as a person instead of his points. Then, if they can’t convince you, they start confusing you by saying things Roy has never said and accusing Roy of this and that. Very typical PAP tactic. Discerning readers like myself will not be fooled by their antics.”
        you are like kettle calling the pot black. Regarding “discerning readers like myself”, where did you learn how to read?

  26. Vincent Ng

    Why are the Opposition not debating and demanding a transparency on this CPF issues with the PAP? They are elected to do so. Why now leave this to the citizen Roy! And where is the President on this!

    • Ace

      When the citizen talk, opposition sit back and listen. Counselors will tell you that sometimes, this is the best thing to do.
      Some other party like to talk louder and down to citizens and you are expected to believe that they are servant leaders.

  27. Greg

    It is strange that in these comments, I’ve seen quotes from speeches by civil rights leaders from the USA (weirdly, one of those speeches took place about a 5 minute walk from my house), British citizens and Chinese leaders, but I can’t remember one quote from an historic speach by someone from Singapore.

    Why do the people posting from Singapore know and reference these quotes from foreigners, rather than natives. Frankly some of the quotes from the civil rights leaders from the USA were so obscure I was surprised that anyone outside a scholar of that period of the USAs history would know them. I only do because it was local history for me.

    So a request. What are the top three speaches that ever Singapore native should know (in English preferably) so I can read and learn from them?

    • Ted

      Get lost lah.
      Btw, shut up, quoting others speech is not plagiarizing.
      So why bring this point up?
      U wana fly here to make a speech too?

    • Greg

      This was supposed to be a reply to a post by another average Singaporean. On not sure why it posted out of order. He said that it was sad that I knew Roys speach thath he felt was not good and I did not know the great soeaches of Singapore. I would like to read these speeches since clearly I should know them. Sadly my reply became disconnected from his post. I hope he sees this.

      • Greg

        Another Average Singaporean.

        I found some videos of soeaches. Anny suggestions of which are defining? And better yet in written form. I’ll and it I am lazy, and would rather not have to transcribe them mysekf .

      • Xmen

        Nicole Seah gives great speeches. She was a fast rising political star in the last election. If I remembered correctly, she had more organic “likes” than LHL during that time. Like Roy, she captivates Singaporeans and I hope she runs in the next election.

      • tokcok who dont know

        nicole seah? the one who cried in front of camera to show she cares for the poor ?

        she disappeared after losing the election. she will surely come out again during election time.

      • Ted

        Nicole seah look prettier last time so more popular… Now, she look more auntie Liao…
        Btw, isn’t she in Bangkok? She only come bk for election, right?
        Still need to make a living wat… If become mp can get so much money then can stay in sg then…
        All these ppl just want to earn more money…

      • Ding hua

        Hi Ted, I agree nicole is pretty. But Ted, do you have a photo.. I like macho people who can argue. Someone like you or Chris 🙂

  28. What Does PAP Govt Do With The Money They Collect From Us?

    If you can withdraw all your CPF money @ age 55, will the PAP government help you in time of trouble?
    If you have a guarantor PLUS you withdraw all your money @ age 55, will the PAP government help you in time of trouble?

    The PAP government is very good at collecting money from Singaporeans under all kinds of schemes and taxes.
    But what does the PAP government do with all the money they collect from Singaporeans?
    Does the PAP government use the money they collected to help you?

    • another average singaporean

      Maybe they do stuff like build new roads or shelters because things do wear out? Maybe they use it to fund the hospitals, school or the army and the various schemes such as the recent one for the Pioneer generation?
      Or maybe these things are done by magic.

      • PAP Government Surplus Is Not Used To Help Singaporeans - Why?

        But every year the PAP government reports a PAP government surplus.
        PAP government surplus means the PAP government collected more money than they needed.

        But Singaporeans’ surplus money is not used to help Singaporeans.
        The surplus is transferred to the PAP reserves.
        And the Auditor General says it will take them 56 man years to count all the money and assets belonging to Singaporeans.

        “I make no apologies that the PAP is the Government and the Government is the PAP.”
        – Lee Kuan Yew, Petir, 1982

        Does this mean that our Government surplus is also PAP’s surplus?
        Our government reserves is also PAP’s reserves?

      • another average singaporean

        Yeah what is the PAP doing? Saving money for a rainy day? What is this! We should be spending like there is no tomorrow so that we can emulate australia where budget cuts are being carried out or USA where the spending is being pushed to the future generation.

      • Xmen

        …or live poor (and beg the MP) and died rich (with untouchable $$$ in cpf statement)

      • Why Collect So Much Money From Singaporeans ?

        A PAP government surplus means that excessive money has been collected from Singaporeans in the form of taxes.
        More money was collected than was budgeted for to build hospitals and roads and etc.
        Money taken from Singaporeans that could otherwise be used by Singaporeans for medical bills and children’s education.

        Just because Temasek Holdings lost a lot of money speculating in foreign bank shares.
        Does not mean that Singaporeans are also reckless speculators.
        We prefer to use our money more wisely than the PAP government.

        “I make no apologies that the PAP is the Government and the Government is the PAP.”
        – Lee Kuan Yew, Petir, 1982

      • another average singaporean

        or do our own investment and financial planning so that we do not need to beg.

    • Ted

      Can we vote for Roy? Since he dun need taxes and can bring more money for Singaporeans. But first he must sign with his life that he dun impose any form of taxes, land must be given to everyone as freehold. Govt cannot take bk land from his ppl, since land is so cheap in sg- we will buy it for $1/sqm, no more ft, open our coffers and distribute everything to us according to our contributions…
      All this must be done before he can have full powers of PM….
      Go Roy go…. Show us the money and we will show u our votes….

  29. webex

    The more Roy is attacked on his blog, the more support he is likely to get. The silent majority may not wish to write but that does not mean Roy does not have supporters.

    Roy is working alone or with a small group only. The government has all the support to counter him, to take action against him.
    It takes courage to speak. I watched his speech. He is a Man on a Mission of Change. Watch his energy, even the blood vessels are bulging on his neck. Watch his fierce determination as he spits out his words of defiance.

    This is not a person that the PAP can put down easily. He is willing sacrifice even his personal freedom, fighting for his conviction. And he is young. Many in his generation are going to support him.

    More “Roys” will rise. What else can he lose? His job? Well there will be others who can afford to pay his wages or slip him money to keep him going. And if others join him and do more research he will have more data to challenge the system.

    We need to give people like Roy the space to speak up. Listen and seek the voice of People. Roy is not asking for the overthrow of the PAP or anything violent. He questions about the CPF and many issues. He can be a contributor to Spore and should NOT be bludgeon into bankruptcy.

    I think he speaks more eloquently than many of those elected. And I hope Roy continue to mature and carry on with his arguments for change.

    Is Singapore AFRAID of change?

      • Xmen


        Like I said earlier, go find a day job if you want more money. Money does not grow on tree or trolling around here. Go get a life if you don’t have any insight to share.

      • Ted

        Roy thinks it grows on trees.
        I believe him…
        My cpf needs to grow too.
        I want Gic, th, Keppel, etc to make sure my money grows. Else pap must hang them… Put them in hong lim park stage to be crucified.
        All this said by Roy.
        I believe him.
        Btw I may earn more than u. So dun preach abt having a day job.

      • Xmen


        “Btw I may earn more than u” I suppose that’s why you are so busy trolling here to maintain the status quo and to protect your wealth? You are more pesty than Chris. I’m going to IGNORE you. HAHAHA!

      • Ted

        Good riddance!!!
        Foreign lover…
        Can the rest of Roy’s foreign lovers get lost as well…

      • Retire

        Roy has all the supporters or there is going to be big change or there is no PAP not my concern anymore. Cos I am those of rags to riches stories and already mobile in anywhere in this world. I know this is attracting envy but if you right time at the right place with hard work, big risk and some luck, you be those who can male ot
        Those want change hope it turn out to be well. The future lies in the hands of majority.

      • Is The PAP Afraid Of Change?

        Singaporeans are not afraid of change.
        But PAP or Singapore may be afraid of change.
        Since PAP is Singapore and Singapore is PAP – according to Lee Kuan Yew.

    • The sun

      Can we only donate to support RN after the court pass the sentence so that the court don’t know how much to fine him.

      • THE MOON

        Eh shouldn’t we continue donating money to him? Later he suffer from malnutrition from eating only plain rice at cafes cos he not enough money. If Roy Ngerng unable to continue on due to malnutrition, how will Singaporeans think without him! No more blogs to keep us thinking about the truth and nothing about the truth about the CPF

      • Ted

        @sun and moon,
        Do u think this is korean drama?
        Anyway, just donate to him.
        Did u read the news? Sg donate and insurance payout to m’sian family to a tune of 1million. Then she go and spend finish everything within 1yr…. Now they living in poverty.
        I assure u that financially lousy Singaporeans will be in their shoes if cpf is returned…
        Then u ppl should donate to such poor Singaporeans who r conned to believe in Roy theory….

  30. Pingback: [Video] Roy Ngerng’s Speech at #ReturnOurCPF: I Believe In A New, United Singapore | The Heart Truths
  31. tata

    From my observations, the great number of people who are unhappy are not really the low income group. THey are mainly the ones who does not own a car and wants to own it. Or the ones who wants to buy a resale HDB at mature estate or upgrade to private property.

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